Comments on: pose vs barefoot + race plans

By: A Passion for Running » 3 and 3

A Passion for Running » 3 and 3 — Tue, 14 Jun 2005 19:09:53 +0000

[...] 8212;————– Ever since Bill pointed out the words I bolded in one of my previous posts, I am looking at [...]

By: jank

jank — Thu, 02 Jun 2005 12:13:22 +0000

Uh – after the sweet discussion between Mark and Jon, I’m a bit intimidated.

What struck me about this post (Having little but a cursory interest in barefoot/Pose, but a great respect for those trying) was the words in bold:

Racing
If
Tool
System
Arsenal
Much
Faster

Good stuff; exactly the kind of thing that I rely on the RBF (father and family) for.

Now lose the If.

By: Jon in Michigan

Jon in Michigan — Thu, 02 Jun 2005 11:19:54 +0000

Uh, that’d be your first 5K barefoot, which I suspect will actually be coming soon.

By: Jon in Michigan

Jon in Michigan — Thu, 02 Jun 2005 11:19:08 +0000

Heh, heh. I have some doubts about whether running in shoes is an enhancement or not. Time will tell. We’ll have to see your times after your first 5K.

By: Mark

Mark — Wed, 01 Jun 2005 19:23:03 +0000

Jon, I think the form employed by pose is not an adaption of running. It is simply a method/system for getting us back to proper form. Pose running can be done barefoot or not.

HOWEVER, any runner who runs in shoes does so (I think) as a support – an enhancement – something to improve on nature’s gifts.

As for the question, “can humans adapt?”. I think if we are running properly, we are doing what evolution meant us to do. That said, we always have to build up gradually when it comes to increases in speed or distance.

By: Jon in Michigan

Jon in Michigan — Wed, 01 Jun 2005 17:40:53 +0000

Mark – So then POSE remains an adaptation of running with things hooked to your feet (hence the use of the reflected force). Remember my analogy of running with stilts on? So then I wonder if the legs can really deal long-term with forces like that. Maybe Chi/POSE running help to minimize the damage, while still being adaptations for real running.

Adeel – I think most BF runners don’t have fast PR’s because most people learn to run shod, and never develop a natural BF running form while young, and are farther along in their running “career” before trying barefoot running. Even Saxton didn’t start running long distance barefoot until he was older, and then times often begin to drop off. I’d be curious to see how 20-year-old barefoot runners do against their shod counterparts in long distance race. Sprinters with spikes on their feet will always accellerate faster than smooth soled competitors, I think.

By: Mark

Mark — Wed, 01 Jun 2005 17:25:02 +0000

Sheesh. You’re making my tiny little brain hurt Jon!

The answer is that you want to coordinate the reflection with the pulling of your hamstring. As soon as you make contact with the ground, your hamstring needs to fire (using the reflection to advantage) to lift the heel off the ground. There is virtually no impact this way – just a reaction which the hamstring is PERFECTLY designed for.

That’s the approach as I understand it in pose for maximizing efficiency. You can do the same thing in your bare feet but with less springiness due to the softer nature of the foot.

By: Jon in Michigan

Jon in Michigan — Wed, 01 Jun 2005 17:18:50 +0000

So the first question then is, where do you want that reflected energy to go? If you want it back into your legs, then the next question is, were your legs designed to accept repeated elastic collisions with the ground (like the ping pong ball)? Even more important, were your feet (the softball) designed for that?

Then again, we weren’t designed to run on pavement either.

No BFR’ing for me until after the race. I got a blister from running on the asphalt.

By: Adeel

Adeel — Wed, 01 Jun 2005 17:18:42 +0000

No Mark, you’re right. There’s a reason as to why most people who run barefoot don’t have terribly fast PBs. The best results on the roads will come from a low-profile racing flat.

If barefoot running was the fastest thing out there, sprinters wouldn’t wear spikes.

I haven’t done any barefoot work lately, I’m by and large concerned with putting together a few decent races over the next 10 days. I’ll get to that in the summer, starting in July. I figure I’ll also start to do a portion of my easy runs in flats as well.

By: Mark

Mark — Wed, 01 Jun 2005 17:07:40 +0000

A ping-pong ball is the thinnest, lightest hunk of plastic you can find but its springiness is astounding. A softer ball (like a bare foot) will lose some of its energy compressing itself into the ground.

I’m probably full of crap (I’m sure Adeel will tell me if I am!) but it seems to make sense to me?

And thanks for the kudos. I appreciate it.

You done any BFRing lately?