Comments on: Should chip timing be done at the finish AND start of races? http://completerunning.com/archives/2008/04/08/should-chip-timing-be-done-at-the-finish-and-start-of-races/ Runner's Information & Advice Sun, 21 Mar 2010 01:50:04 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Joe B http://completerunning.com/archives/2008/04/08/should-chip-timing-be-done-at-the-finish-and-start-of-races/comment-page-1/#comment-169103 Joe B Tue, 24 Mar 2009 05:33:21 +0000 http://completerunning.com/archives/2008/04/08/should-chip-timing-be-done-at-the-finish-and-start-of-races/#comment-169103 I am familiar with costs involved in race timing systems. They are very expensive to purchase initially and have additional costs in the timing chips themselves. Investment is 10's of thousands per system. For a local timing company or running club to purchase one system it would require a huge commitment especially if they only do 300 person races. To purchase 2 systems they need to be timing the larger races to be able to get a payback - ROI. The question of two mats vs one is really a decision for the event if they want to pay for the additional mat. Things to consider are expected field size and width of the start line. If you have 500 people lined up across 30 feet of start line it only takes half minute or less to get to the start line, and that's the last runner/walker. Usually the fast runners are in the front and the slower runners are in the back so you are starting with your competition at your side anyway. The reason an event will decide to have one mat over pull tag timing is accuracy as was explained so well above by Blaine. Less headaches, instant results, = happy finishers. The last thing an early finisher wants is to wait for everyone to finish, then wait some more as the timing company has to make adjustments to the finish file because 5 bandits decided to cheap out and not pay for participation or the volunteer pushing the button didn't quite do it right. Most runners want the results soon so they can move on to the next thing on their list of things to do on that Saturday morning. Another argument for finish line mat only is USATF Rule 245 Finishline Recording and Timing which states: "The timers shall start their watches or timing devices at the flash/smoke of the pistol or approved apparatus or at the first moment a competitor crosses the start line, whichever happens first. The official time shall be the time elapsed between the start of the watches or timing devices resulting from an appropriate start signal and the athlete reaching the finish line. However, the actual time elapsed between and athlete reaching the starting line and the finish line can be made known to the athlete, but will not be considered official time." That being said, Chip Start to Chip Finish is a wonderul thing but please realize it is more expensive to provide and more expensive for the race to have. The races that offer Gun Start to Chip Finish are giving the participants a better experience with very accuate results usually presented during the race and then after the last finisher, with final results. Most chip timers post these results online within hours after the race giving the participant and even better experience. So if a race is only giving one mat for finish line timing they are improving their race. They need your support. If the race continues the grow they just might be able to offer two mats next time. I am familiar with costs involved in race timing systems. They are very expensive to purchase initially and have additional costs in the timing chips themselves. Investment is 10’s of thousands per system. For a local timing company or running club to purchase one system it would require a huge commitment especially if they only do 300 person races. To purchase 2 systems they need to be timing the larger races to be able to get a payback – ROI.

The question of two mats vs one is really a decision for the event if they want to pay for the additional mat. Things to consider are expected field size and width of the start line. If you have 500 people lined up across 30 feet of start line it only takes half minute or less to get to the start line, and that’s the last runner/walker. Usually the fast runners are in the front and the slower runners are in the back so you are starting with your competition at your side anyway. The reason an event will decide to have one mat over pull tag timing is accuracy as was explained so well above by Blaine. Less headaches, instant results, = happy finishers. The last thing an early finisher wants is to wait for everyone to finish, then wait some more as the timing company has to make adjustments to the finish file because 5 bandits decided to cheap out and not pay for participation or the volunteer pushing the button didn’t quite do it right. Most runners want the results soon so they can move on to the next thing on their list of things to do on that Saturday morning.

Another argument for finish line mat only is USATF Rule 245 Finishline Recording and Timing which states: “The timers shall start their watches or timing devices at the flash/smoke of the pistol or approved apparatus or at the first moment a competitor crosses the start line, whichever happens first. The official time shall be the time elapsed between the start of the watches or timing devices resulting from an appropriate start signal and the athlete reaching the finish line. However, the actual time elapsed between and athlete reaching the starting line and the finish line can be made known to the athlete, but will not be considered official time.”

That being said, Chip Start to Chip Finish is a wonderul thing but please realize it is more expensive to provide and more expensive for the race to have. The races that offer Gun Start to Chip Finish are giving the participants a better experience with very accuate results usually presented during the race and then after the last finisher, with final results. Most chip timers post these results online within hours after the race giving the participant and even better experience.

So if a race is only giving one mat for finish line timing they are improving their race. They need your support. If the race continues the grow they just might be able to offer two mats next time.

]]> By: aaron OBrien http://completerunning.com/archives/2008/04/08/should-chip-timing-be-done-at-the-finish-and-start-of-races/comment-page-1/#comment-133852 aaron OBrien Fri, 06 Mar 2009 02:11:54 +0000 http://completerunning.com/archives/2008/04/08/should-chip-timing-be-done-at-the-finish-and-start-of-races/#comment-133852 Does anybody have specific numbers as to the cost of a two mat timing system? Anyone ever bought one or upgraded from a one mat? Does anybody have specific numbers as to the cost of a two mat timing system? Anyone ever bought one or upgraded from a one mat?

]]> By: Blaine Moore (Run to Win) http://completerunning.com/archives/2008/04/08/should-chip-timing-be-done-at-the-finish-and-start-of-races/comment-page-1/#comment-117087 Blaine Moore (Run to Win) Sun, 22 Feb 2009 23:22:32 +0000 http://completerunning.com/archives/2008/04/08/should-chip-timing-be-done-at-the-finish-and-start-of-races/#comment-117087 It won't cost a million dollars, but the type of chip timing system determines the cost and it can get pricy, especially if you are using an older technology that you are trying to upgrade. Blaine Moore (Run to Win)s last blog post..<a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/RunToWin/~3/FcFB67IcZDA/new-york-city-marathon-expenses.html" rel="nofollow">Registration Opens for New York » Expenses Guaranteed</a> It won’t cost a million dollars, but the type of chip timing system determines the cost and it can get pricy, especially if you are using an older technology that you are trying to upgrade.

Blaine Moore (Run to Win)s last blog post..Registration Opens for New York » Expenses Guaranteed

]]> By: aaron OBrien http://completerunning.com/archives/2008/04/08/should-chip-timing-be-done-at-the-finish-and-start-of-races/comment-page-1/#comment-116608 aaron OBrien Sun, 22 Feb 2009 13:26:50 +0000 http://completerunning.com/archives/2008/04/08/should-chip-timing-be-done-at-the-finish-and-start-of-races/#comment-116608 My local track club hosts fantastic events but lacks a chip timing at the START (finish only). I have heard many complaints from those who start n th back as well as those who have to try to cram uo to the front. I am told the system costs "a million dollars" -- this can't be, can it? Question: how much does it cost to purchase an integrated start and finish timing system? My local track club hosts fantastic events but lacks a chip timing at the START (finish only). I have heard many complaints from those who start n th back as well as those who have to try to cram uo to the front.

I am told the system costs “a million dollars” — this can’t be, can it?

Question: how much does it cost to purchase an integrated start and finish timing system?

]]> By: Survey Says! http://completerunning.com/archives/2008/04/08/should-chip-timing-be-done-at-the-finish-and-start-of-races/comment-page-1/#comment-27455 Survey Says! Thu, 19 Jun 2008 03:31:58 +0000 http://completerunning.com/archives/2008/04/08/should-chip-timing-be-done-at-the-finish-and-start-of-races/#comment-27455 [...] is an example of a loaded poll question. Asking whether or not chip timing should be done at the start and finish [...] [...] is an example of a loaded poll question. Asking whether or not chip timing should be done at the start and finish [...]

]]> By: Brandon http://completerunning.com/archives/2008/04/08/should-chip-timing-be-done-at-the-finish-and-start-of-races/comment-page-1/#comment-24586 Brandon Fri, 06 Jun 2008 18:44:22 +0000 http://completerunning.com/archives/2008/04/08/should-chip-timing-be-done-at-the-finish-and-start-of-races/#comment-24586 I agree with Tina. If you've paid your race entry fee, and it's advertised that there's chip timing, it needs to be complete - start and finish. Let the race organizers figure out the price point for it, but if they show up with only one mat, they are delivering a partial solution to the timing problem. Cheers, -B <em>Brandon's last blog post..<a href='http://brandonnugent.com/2008/05/28/heart-walk-event-we-need-your-help/' rel="nofollow">Heart Walk Event - we need your HELP!</a></em> I agree with Tina. If you’ve paid your race entry fee, and it’s advertised that there’s chip timing, it needs to be complete – start and finish. Let the race organizers figure out the price point for it, but if they show up with only one mat, they are delivering a partial solution to the timing problem.

Cheers,
-B

Brandon’s last blog post..Heart Walk Event – we need your HELP!

]]> By: RunColo http://completerunning.com/archives/2008/04/08/should-chip-timing-be-done-at-the-finish-and-start-of-races/comment-page-1/#comment-24568 RunColo Fri, 06 Jun 2008 18:20:22 +0000 http://completerunning.com/archives/2008/04/08/should-chip-timing-be-done-at-the-finish-and-start-of-races/#comment-24568 This is a loaded question. Because the people voting are spending another persons money. It's the same reason people vote for politicans who support bringing federal dollars into there area (see the "bridge to no where"). A better question would be "Would you be willing to pay slightly more on a race entry fee in order to have chip timing at the start/finish" Nobody spends somebody else's money as carefully as he spends his own. Nobody uses somebody else's resources as carefully as he uses his own. So if you want efficiency and effectiveness, if you want knowledge to be properly utilized, you have to do it through the means of private property. - Milton Friedman This is a loaded question. Because the people voting are spending another persons money. It’s the same reason people vote for politicans who support bringing federal dollars into there area (see the “bridge to no where”).

A better question would be “Would you be willing to pay slightly more on a race entry fee in order to have chip timing at the start/finish”

Nobody spends somebody else’s money as carefully as he spends his own. Nobody uses somebody else’s resources as carefully as he uses his own. So if you want efficiency and effectiveness, if you want knowledge to be properly utilized, you have to do it through the means of private property. – Milton Friedman

]]> By: Tina http://completerunning.com/archives/2008/04/08/should-chip-timing-be-done-at-the-finish-and-start-of-races/comment-page-1/#comment-20389 Tina Mon, 14 Apr 2008 17:35:35 +0000 http://completerunning.com/archives/2008/04/08/should-chip-timing-be-done-at-the-finish-and-start-of-races/#comment-20389 I feel that if you are going to invest in Chip timing for a race you should get it at the start and finish. Whoever is organizing the race should care enough about those participating to do both and get returning runners next year. If you are not going to have chip timing or just chip timing at the end then you should call it a fun run... no stress and no numbers unless you keep track of them yourself. I live in a little town in Northern California but our Local Running store is one of the best in this half of the state. They are dedicated to its runners including having a fun and fair race each year. <em>Tina's last blog post..<a href='http://gottagrubnrun.blogspot.com/2008/04/where-is-margaritaville-again.html' rel="nofollow">Where is Margaritaville again?</a></em> I feel that if you are going to invest in Chip timing for a race you should get it at the start and finish. Whoever is organizing the race should care enough about those participating to do both and get returning runners next year. If you are not going to have chip timing or just chip timing at the end then you should call it a fun run… no stress and no numbers unless you keep track of them yourself. I live in a little town in Northern California but our Local Running store is one of the best in this half of the state. They are dedicated to its runners including having a fun and fair race each year.

Tina’s last blog post..Where is Margaritaville again?

]]> By: Blaine Moore (Run to Win) http://completerunning.com/archives/2008/04/08/should-chip-timing-be-done-at-the-finish-and-start-of-races/comment-page-1/#comment-20262 Blaine Moore (Run to Win) Thu, 10 Apr 2008 14:06:46 +0000 http://completerunning.com/archives/2008/04/08/should-chip-timing-be-done-at-the-finish-and-start-of-races/#comment-20262 I have trouble understanding why you would choose no mat over 1 mat other than that it irks you that you have a chip but don't get a net time. It isn't going to get you over the starting line any faster, and you will still have only a gun time, although now you may not even get that and it will take longer for you to find out after you finish running anyway. I have trouble understanding why you would choose no mat over 1 mat other than that it irks you that you have a chip but don’t get a net time. It isn’t going to get you over the starting line any faster, and you will still have only a gun time, although now you may not even get that and it will take longer for you to find out after you finish running anyway.

]]> By: Eric http://completerunning.com/archives/2008/04/08/should-chip-timing-be-done-at-the-finish-and-start-of-races/comment-page-1/#comment-20257 Eric Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:45:55 +0000 http://completerunning.com/archives/2008/04/08/should-chip-timing-be-done-at-the-finish-and-start-of-races/#comment-20257 I don't agree with the one mat is better than no mats argument. I think that, although more work, old methods could come up with a better time. If it takes you 20-30 seconds (over even 10-15) to cross the start in a 5k, there goes the PR. If I'm choosing between 1 mat or no mat, I go no mat. <em>Eric's last blog post..<a href='http://stubbornrunning.blogspot.com/2008/04/early-morning-running.html' rel="nofollow">Early Morning Running...</a></em> I don’t agree with the one mat is better than no mats argument. I think that, although more work, old methods could come up with a better time. If it takes you 20-30 seconds (over even 10-15) to cross the start in a 5k, there goes the PR.

If I’m choosing between 1 mat or no mat, I go no mat.

Eric’s last blog post..Early Morning Running…

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